<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Withers: A closer look at the New York marriage poll numbers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/</link>
	<description>The daily news source for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:02:58 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-64942</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8210#comment-64942</guid>
		<description>Glad to see this information. Many thanks James!

And I&#039;m sorry to see some comments that to me seem racist. I hope we can learn to live together better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see this information. Many thanks James!</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m sorry to see some comments that to me seem racist. I hope we can learn to live together better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Victor J Kinzer</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-64927</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor J Kinzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8210#comment-64927</guid>
		<description>You know, it&#039;s time to change the conversation about marriage in this country.  I got married in Indiana this past weekend.  That&#039;s right Indiana, is it legal here?  That depends on how you look at it.  Indiana does not acknowledge our wedding, but the police did not come and take us away in chains for performing the ceremony.  We were wed in a state park, because the price was right and we could do our own food and alcohol.  Everyone I have talked to has congratulated me, my office pitched in and bought my husband and I a gift card as a wedding present.  Socially speaking I am married.  I consider my wedding like a country that the dominant world powers have not yet accepted the sovereignty of.  Note the grammar there.  The acceptance does not grant sovereignty, it accepts that it was already there.  We need to start getting married in states where it is not legal.  We need to have the parties, invite the people, create the families.  We need to make the present tense of our marriages part of the debate.  Think our marriages will create the downfall of society?  Well then get your hard hats because benefits or not they&#039;re already here.  It&#039;s time to take what is ours, and then demand the rest, it&#039;s time to take control of the language of the debate.  Screw &quot;legalizing&quot; same sex marriage.  That phrasing makes it very clear that the government has the power to stop us from marrying.  That is a lie, and an insidious one.  There are countries where the government has nothing to do with marriage, and people are still married all the time, it is the culture and society that provide the support after the blessed event.  Well our society and culture can do the same thing.  Make the arguments against us mute by creating a world where what they are warning everyone against is already here.  It&#039;s time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, it&#8217;s time to change the conversation about marriage in this country.  I got married in Indiana this past weekend.  That&#8217;s right Indiana, is it legal here?  That depends on how you look at it.  Indiana does not acknowledge our wedding, but the police did not come and take us away in chains for performing the ceremony.  We were wed in a state park, because the price was right and we could do our own food and alcohol.  Everyone I have talked to has congratulated me, my office pitched in and bought my husband and I a gift card as a wedding present.  Socially speaking I am married.  I consider my wedding like a country that the dominant world powers have not yet accepted the sovereignty of.  Note the grammar there.  The acceptance does not grant sovereignty, it accepts that it was already there.  We need to start getting married in states where it is not legal.  We need to have the parties, invite the people, create the families.  We need to make the present tense of our marriages part of the debate.  Think our marriages will create the downfall of society?  Well then get your hard hats because benefits or not they&#8217;re already here.  It&#8217;s time to take what is ours, and then demand the rest, it&#8217;s time to take control of the language of the debate.  Screw &#8220;legalizing&#8221; same sex marriage.  That phrasing makes it very clear that the government has the power to stop us from marrying.  That is a lie, and an insidious one.  There are countries where the government has nothing to do with marriage, and people are still married all the time, it is the culture and society that provide the support after the blessed event.  Well our society and culture can do the same thing.  Make the arguments against us mute by creating a world where what they are warning everyone against is already here.  It&#8217;s time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-64908</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8210#comment-64908</guid>
		<description>It is encouraging to see the trend up, but what would be more encouraging would be to see multiple polls with it continuing upward or steady over a significant period of time.  I agree with you, James.  I&#039;m too old and been around too long and have seen too many polls that lead to misleading conclusions to read too much into any one poll, no matter what their random sampling and statistics seem to prove.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is encouraging to see the trend up, but what would be more encouraging would be to see multiple polls with it continuing upward or steady over a significant period of time.  I agree with you, James.  I&#8217;m too old and been around too long and have seen too many polls that lead to misleading conclusions to read too much into any one poll, no matter what their random sampling and statistics seem to prove.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-64892</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8210#comment-64892</guid>
		<description>The new poll is encouraging. I am glad that many Blacks have been supportive of marriage equality. There appears to be a problem in the Black Church, which is also a powerful political engine in the Black community, and I hope that more effort will be made, especially by Black glbtq people, to change attitudes there. Thanks, James, for this analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The new poll is encouraging. I am glad that many Blacks have been supportive of marriage equality. There appears to be a problem in the Black Church, which is also a powerful political engine in the Black community, and I hope that more effort will be made, especially by Black glbtq people, to change attitudes there. Thanks, James, for this analysis.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Withers</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-64878</link>
		<dc:creator>James Withers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8210#comment-64878</guid>
		<description>John,

&quot;How about shocking us once in a while then? If you’re going to play South Parks &#039;Token&#039;, then expect to be mocked as &#039;race-card Withers&#039;. Instead of trying to be the iconoclast focusing on race, how about remembering why the f*ck you’re on here. Its not to show up Sharpton.&quot;

I know why I&#039;m here. As for your Sharpton quip and the race card charge, both are silly and not connected to anything I&#039;ve written. 

James</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>&#8220;How about shocking us once in a while then? If you’re going to play South Parks &#8216;Token&#8217;, then expect to be mocked as &#8216;race-card Withers&#8217;. Instead of trying to be the iconoclast focusing on race, how about remembering why the f*ck you’re on here. Its not to show up Sharpton.&#8221;</p>
<p>I know why I&#8217;m here. As for your Sharpton quip and the race card charge, both are silly and not connected to anything I&#8217;ve written. </p>
<p>James</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jessi</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-64875</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8210#comment-64875</guid>
		<description>@ ozzy....hahahaha, you have stumbled onto one of my favorite phrases,“think about the children”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ ozzy&#8230;.hahahaha, you have stumbled onto one of my favorite phrases,“think about the children”</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: drewski</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-64871</link>
		<dc:creator>drewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8210#comment-64871</guid>
		<description>So what&#039;s wrong with taking results at face value and accepting that, of those New York blacks with an opinion, a bare majority supported gays being able to marry?  If you said the same of Long Islanders, or registered Republicans, or people living in counties along the Erie Canal, there wouldn&#039;t be the same scrutiny.  Maybe New Yorkers are smart enough to reach out to all of their neighbors, unlike the California failure to reach out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what&#8217;s wrong with taking results at face value and accepting that, of those New York blacks with an opinion, a bare majority supported gays being able to marry?  If you said the same of Long Islanders, or registered Republicans, or people living in counties along the Erie Canal, there wouldn&#8217;t be the same scrutiny.  Maybe New Yorkers are smart enough to reach out to all of their neighbors, unlike the California failure to reach out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-64867</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8210#comment-64867</guid>
		<description>So basically you&#039;re saying that you&#039;re not impressed with polls, and then proceed to seek vindication of an entire minority for the actions of one state constituency in Cali by building an article around a 1% slice of poll data in another, showing the slimmest possible mathematical edge, defying the notion of error margin altogether, and dismissing the context of respective turnout completely.

You diligently cite the efforts of marriage advocates to bring conscientious black citizens into the tent and then close by saying that black homophobia hasnt decreased, in contradiction to the rising 25 point fruition by the efforts of the advocates. 

To add, you purport that DC, a city of around 55% blacks, is in favor of marriage through some magical association that a 55% demographic must signal that they are the dynamic cause of this favorable tenor, despite the fact that DC has a massive transient ghetto, one third of the city as a whole is functionally illiterate, the crime rate is three times the national average, and to top it off, 70% of the hate crimes in DC are based on perceived sexual orientation.

So I&#039;m either to conclude that your favorable constituency is the *many affluent blacks* in the Metro area, or that the ones engaging in basic street survival are somehow making time to get to the electoral polls on the issue of gay marriage, and the remaining mixed white and hispanic population are too busy watching cable to summon any mass of electoral clout that would explain this odd political demographic phenomenon.

After sub-titling the article with &quot;a small majority of blacks&quot; (&lt;= 1%), you close by using the above to fatuously support a snide retort on the premise that people outraged at the black constituency’s collective treachery at the polls is somehow unfounded, rather than scrap all the bullshit weak statistical sophistry and simply blog on the shining black minority that did indeed vote in our favor.

No, you refute poll data as a premise, cite it, and then use the weakest possible statistics and loosest associations for a juvenile snipe at those betrayed for a simple race play.

You got my attention, to include the site, when you covered Gerren Gaynor&#039;s insane rant at Morehouse. Goddammit, you&#039;re smarter than this. You do not need to be making left-handed justifications, apologies or callow sneers at everyone else based on race just because your black.

&quot;Those of you who got off on the racial angle after the Prop 8 vote and left racial drive-by messes  here (my personal fav are those who described how they marched next to MLK and now feel sooooooo betrayed) have been silent on all of this. Too old to be shocked by that.&quot;

How about shocking us once in a while then? If you&#039;re going to play South Parks &quot;Token&quot;, then expect to be mocked as &quot;race-card Withers&quot;. Instead of trying to be the iconoclast focusing on race, how about remembering why the f*ck you&#039;re on here. Its not to show up Sharpton.



http://regbarc.newsvine.com/_news/2007/03/19/622460-study-finds-one-third-in-washington-dc-illiterate

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/table13washdc.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So basically you&#8217;re saying that you&#8217;re not impressed with polls, and then proceed to seek vindication of an entire minority for the actions of one state constituency in Cali by building an article around a 1% slice of poll data in another, showing the slimmest possible mathematical edge, defying the notion of error margin altogether, and dismissing the context of respective turnout completely.</p>
<p>You diligently cite the efforts of marriage advocates to bring conscientious black citizens into the tent and then close by saying that black homophobia hasnt decreased, in contradiction to the rising 25 point fruition by the efforts of the advocates. </p>
<p>To add, you purport that DC, a city of around 55% blacks, is in favor of marriage through some magical association that a 55% demographic must signal that they are the dynamic cause of this favorable tenor, despite the fact that DC has a massive transient ghetto, one third of the city as a whole is functionally illiterate, the crime rate is three times the national average, and to top it off, 70% of the hate crimes in DC are based on perceived sexual orientation.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m either to conclude that your favorable constituency is the *many affluent blacks* in the Metro area, or that the ones engaging in basic street survival are somehow making time to get to the electoral polls on the issue of gay marriage, and the remaining mixed white and hispanic population are too busy watching cable to summon any mass of electoral clout that would explain this odd political demographic phenomenon.</p>
<p>After sub-titling the article with &#8220;a small majority of blacks&#8221; (&lt;= 1%), you close by using the above to fatuously support a snide retort on the premise that people outraged at the black constituency’s collective treachery at the polls is somehow unfounded, rather than scrap all the bullshit weak statistical sophistry and simply blog on the shining black minority that did indeed vote in our favor.</p>
<p>No, you refute poll data as a premise, cite it, and then use the weakest possible statistics and loosest associations for a juvenile snipe at those betrayed for a simple race play.</p>
<p>You got my attention, to include the site, when you covered Gerren Gaynor&#8217;s insane rant at Morehouse. Goddammit, you&#8217;re smarter than this. You do not need to be making left-handed justifications, apologies or callow sneers at everyone else based on race just because your black.</p>
<p>&#8220;Those of you who got off on the racial angle after the Prop 8 vote and left racial drive-by messes  here (my personal fav are those who described how they marched next to MLK and now feel sooooooo betrayed) have been silent on all of this. Too old to be shocked by that.&#8221;</p>
<p>How about shocking us once in a while then? If you&#8217;re going to play South Parks &#8220;Token&#8221;, then expect to be mocked as &#8220;race-card Withers&#8221;. Instead of trying to be the iconoclast focusing on race, how about remembering why the f*ck you&#8217;re on here. Its not to show up Sharpton.</p>
<p><a href="http://regbarc.newsvine.com/_news/2007/03/19/622460-study-finds-one-third-in-washington-dc-illiterate" rel="nofollow">http://regbarc.newsvine.com/_news/2007/03/19/622460-study-finds-one-third-in-washington-dc-illiterate</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/table13washdc.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/table13washdc.htm</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James Withers</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-64820</link>
		<dc:creator>James Withers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8210#comment-64820</guid>
		<description>TampaZeke,

Fair point. I&#039;ll change it later.

Sincerely,

James</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TampaZeke,</p>
<p>Fair point. I&#8217;ll change it later.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>James</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TampaZeke</title>
		<link>http://www.365gay.com/blog/062409-a-closer-look-at-the-new-york-marriage-poll-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-64816</link>
		<dc:creator>TampaZeke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.365gay.com/?p=8210#comment-64816</guid>
		<description>By no measurement is 43% a MAJORITY; not even a &quot;small majority&quot;.  

The headline should have read, &quot;A small plurality of black New Yorkers support gay marriage.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By no measurement is 43% a MAJORITY; not even a &#8220;small majority&#8221;.  </p>
<p>The headline should have read, &#8220;A small plurality of black New Yorkers support gay marriage.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
