Comments on: Withers: New Yorkers split by race on gay marriage

By: shawn

shawn — Wed, 27 May 2009 13:07:41 +0000

1) Separation of State and religion
2) Separation of Education and religion
3) Separation of Charity and religion

By: scottD

scottD — Wed, 27 May 2009 12:06:18 +0000

African Americans are the most racist people on earth.

By: David

David — Tue, 26 May 2009 19:29:22 +0000

Its time to go after the Religious institutions in this country there the Ones who use there Hateful institutions as a means to to profit for a very few and will not change until they have to be held to laws any other bussiness do! its not black white or brown its about Ugly Religion’s trying to control this country .

By: brothaleeluv

brothaleeluv — Tue, 19 May 2009 05:32:00 +0000

I read what “Meelisa” wrote (middle of all the various posts)…

She is just proving everyone’s point!
And she states that she is an “educated” straight black female! LERD HELP US.

“Meelisa” Rewind yourself back in history, what if I stood in front of you and said, “its in the bible, women are stupid and have no brains and should not be able to vote, or hold a job, have an income or own property” But I do feel you are a person afterall; you would wanna sock me one…

Rewind to not long ago and if I was a white male and I said well I dont think these “blacks should be called AfroAmerican, nothing wrong with the term Negro or Niggar, why they just can’t accept it cuz this is how I was taught” How would that make you feel?

It would all make you think I was IGNANT, STUPID, RASCIST, SEXIST, etc…

Your argument MAKES ME FEEL THE SAME WAY!

You are being ignorant (not knowing) and if you don’t think we should have “marriage” then you are STUCK ON A WORD? Really? You actually think you and “straight” people like you should OWN a word? LOL come on girlfriend. For Real?

And I also don’t AGREE that the “Blacks are the only ones being forthcomeing” I believe that the Black Community, MINUS THE AfroAmerican LGBT (that are open and honest) and fighting with ALL LGBTQ PEOPLE (the rainbow) are hiding their bigotry, ignorance and FEAR behind the Bible and their Religion(s) the same as the Whites did and still some do regarding Race Equality.

Also, I believe that the Black Community in general wants to remain the “Victims” or maybe they are greedy and think “Civil Rights” only belongs to them?

Maybe black women are just scared that not only will their men be marrying people of other races but MEN OF OTHER RACES< CULTURES< CREEDS< ETC? hmmm.

Here, add this to your Education “Meelisa” Civis 101, Civil means PEOPLE and Civil Rights means: “the personal rights of the individual citizen to have equal treatment and equal opportunities”

“FREE YOUR MIND AND THE REST WILL FOLLOW”

By: Dan

Dan — Tue, 19 May 2009 01:35:07 +0000

Here is a useful antidote to the stereotype that black people always oppose gay rights. A survey just showed that blacks and whites in DC responded very similarly when asked if they support same-sex marriage, domestic partnerships, or no relationship rights.

In the poll, 40% of whites and 38% of blacks supported same-sex marriage, while 34% of whites and only 28% of blacks supported no relationship rights.

By: Interested

Interested — Mon, 18 May 2009 16:59:39 +0000

@Melissa
First, I agree with you about California in a certain way. Many LGBT people were quick to attack the black community after Prop 8 in ways that were often quite ugly.
Frankly, I just don’t think that a significant number of people are unwilling to tell the truth about how they really feel. There may come a time when people are afraid to say anti-gay things the way many are now afraid to say racist things, but, as we can see from public debates, I don’t think that time has come yet.
Next, it is a civil rights issue. It is about how we as a nation apply the idea of civil rights to ourselves. No matter where you fall on the issue, it is about civil rights. By definition. You may feel that “allowing” civil unions achieves equal civil rights for all, but the issue, the debate, is still about civil rights.
This is what I would ask you:
You would allow any man to marry any woman under any circumstances for any reasons no matter how ignoble, inglorious, self-serving or predictably unfortunate.
But you wouldn’t allow any same sex couple to have the status of marriage no matter how respectable their union is.
Even if all the couples have the same rights, can you see that this system says that no same sex couple is worthy of the same respect that even the worst of hetero couples can achieve, within hours in some locations.

By: Southernhemisphere

Southernhemisphere — Mon, 18 May 2009 14:57:53 +0000

Say what you want. We are talking about human beings who are a beneficial portion of this “… One nation, Under God, with Liberty and Justice for ALL. “All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others.” American, both black and white, Hypocrisy. Women’s rights, Black rights, Gun rights, Your rights , my rights it is all about HUMAN RIGHTS.

By: Brad

Brad — Mon, 18 May 2009 14:46:49 +0000

@ Melissa, I hear this argument all the time and it makes no sense. If you support the full marriage rights of gays and lesbians, why does it matter what it’s called? You can say your beliefs indicate marriage is a practice between opposite sexes, but what about *our* beliefs? What makes how *we* feel any less valued? There was a time when marriage indicated that a woman is her husband’s property, I think you can agree that things have changed a bit, so this has nothing to do with some notion of “tradition.” If it matters, I’m an educated Black man and I think the whole debate is a waste of time and resources from people on the against side who aren’t even affected by the issue.

By: Meelisa

Meelisa — Mon, 18 May 2009 14:31:46 +0000

I’m a black educated female & I am against gay marriage. I just feel it’s b/w a man & a woman. I don’t feel it’s a civil rights issue or that my beliefs are discrimminatory because I believe gays should have the same legal rights that I have but that it should be called “a civil union”. I am not a racist or a homophobe I accept people for who they are. This is a sensitive issue & because I have gay friends it’s something I’ve struggled with but I can’t help the way I feel.
When California rejected gay marriage I felt that many in the gay community were using the black community as a scapegoat. I just don’t want the same thing to happen here. Have you ever thought that maybe the black community is the only community willing to tell the truth on how they really feel on this issue. While others may just not be as forthcoming?

By: interested

interested — Mon, 18 May 2009 09:31:44 +0000

@TigerTzu

[an expansion of my earlier comments brought up by your interesting analysis]

There’s a commonly held belief in rhetoric that you can’t argue an audience who is opposed to your position into accepting it [I would like to believe that it's not universally true, but it's a good rule of thumb.] That you argue moderates into acceptance and opponents into a more moderate stance.

No, we can not change religious doctrines from the outside. [And personally I don't think outsiders should.] And trying would probably only result in a more entrenched position.

However, most people don’t even realize that there is a diversity of religious opinions on these matters. That many serious religious individuals, religious leaders and religious communities, including Christians, are LGBT supportive. Educating the masses that others interpret scriptures and their religious duties differently will not provide some blinding flash of insight that suddenly changes the hearts and minds of fundamentalists.

It will however change the debate from being secular progressivism [read commie liberalism ] against people of faith, to one religious community (sided with social progressives) against another. It will, for instance, make everyone aware that denying marriage to some people for religious reasons denies others the opportunity to practice their religion as they choose. It promotes one religious viewpoint at the expense of another viewpoint, not THE [sole] religious one. It makes people aware that they can’t simply explain away civically oppressive actions by saying that they are religious; that they have to actually explain that they in fact belong to a conservative branch of their religion. And it makes sure that politicians know that courting the religious vote is more complicated that merely publicly espousing anti-LGBT doctrine.

Fighting religious people on their own turf is not a magic bullet, but by not even trying we cede all the votes of those vast numbers of people who equate morality with religion, religion with the conservatism they casually hear, and all of that with doing the right thing.

Let’s make sure that everyone knows that they have to own it when they take anti-LGBT stands and that they can’t use a superficial explanation of religion to explain it away.