Subscribe to Breaking NewsWithers: New Yorkers split by race on gay marriage
Let’s get the easy lifting out of the way: if you leave a comment about how I’m racist, look in the mirror please because the racist is you. If at any point in this rant you feel like I’m talking about all white gays and lesbians, then it’s time for glasses or a reading comprehension class. If you need to announce how I’m protecting my peeps, brothers and sisters, or whatever racial solidarity phrase you overheard in some club, suppress it. Please. Lastly no sharing what your black boyfriend, best friend, co-worker, neighbor and/or favorite singer told you about black American life (this also includes any theorizing about “the down-low”).
We reported yesterday about a Quinnipiac University poll that was promising for same-sex marriage advocates in New York. New York voters are evenly split on the topic of gay marriage. Unfortunately (look that word up) under closer inspection, the numbers show a troubling racial divide.
“Same-sex marriage? The state splits down the middle, with white voters in favor, black voters opposed and Hispanic voters just about even,” said Maurice Carroll, director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.”
According to the numbers, white New Yorkers narrowly approve gay marriage 47 to 45 percent. Black voters are opposed 57 to 35 percent; Hispanics also stood in opposition but their numbers were not as drastic at 48 to 45.
If we focus solely on the black community, there is no way to prettify the numbers. It would have been interesting to see how those stats broke down with religion attendance, but even if religion is taken into account the figures mirror what I’ve been arguing for awhile: secular gays and religious blacks have very little to say to each other. Based on many of the comments left here, I have doubts about the chasm being breached but that’s neither here nor there.
How to reverse the trend among New York’s blacks? Don’t know really. Some black folk are not going to budge on this issue; however, these are the four arguments I would repeat over and over and over again: 1) gay marriage has zippo to do with the individual decisions made by churches and denominations, 2) the whole debate about marriage for same sex couples is part of the freedom march that began when this country was founded, 3) same sex marriage makes life easier for black gay and lesbian couples, and 4) there are issues in the black community (unemployment and high-school graduation rates) that are more critical to black folk than who is getting a certificate from Empire State city halls.
What won’t work is trying to sell the “you blacks have been oppressed and you need to understand my struggle” line. Oppression does not equal enlightenment about others. It just means you are at the bottom looking up.
Tsk Tsk. 21st century and still we generalize. Still we choose to divide ourselves based on arbitrary labels that do not come close to encompassing who we are.
Even worse people like Eddie want to use those labels to make questionably ‘factual’ statements about the people they apply to.
There are only 2 kinds of people in this country/world. Those who are humane and those who are not. Religion, violence and poverty have nothing to do with it.
Humane people see individuals who ALL need housing, jobs, healthcare; safe neighborhoods, clean water and air, and healthy food. Non humane people see colors and labels and orientations and would rather spend effort and money reinforcing those things than actually improving our country.
The humane of us want to live in a world where people are respected.
I dont care about people who are intolerant of me for the myriad of ‘reasons’ they are, or the people who see me as a label given by others. I care about uniting with the humane of society and forging a new country that refuses to tolerate ALL haters.
I am not black or white, het or homo, rich or poor. I am a human being I demand to be treated humanely.
KsDevil Said: “Maybe it’s time the gay community shift it’s efforts away from itself and towards helping the other minorities. Becoming more visible at black charity events will help. Opening your gay wallet to help their causes can go a long way to helping yourself.”
So you are suggesting we buy them off? And what happens when the money stops flowing?
Kharma is a b*tch. The recession is hitting the poor and uneducated (11% unemployment) far more than those with a college education (4-5% unemployment). After Prop 8 in CA, I have *NO* sympathy for these voters. I hope they lose what little they have, and will vote against *anything* that might benefit them or their children. They deserve what they get. How dare they say we are “immoral” while they allow their children to run around killing each other in the streets?
Like I said in previous post, just because I am not Happy with the 53% ignant blacks doesn’t mean i am not happy with the Whites or Asians, etc. that don’t believe we should have equal rights.
However, like I said, UNLESS you come from or live in a PREDOMINANTLY Black community and YES THEY EXIST (look at Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, New Orleans, Cleveland, Atlanta, etc) and you see for yourself how BLACKS treat each other and treat the LGBT Community then you may want to REFRAIN from calling someone else “Racist”
I have Black and many interracial family members and even THEY say that a BULK of what goes on in the Black Community is just down right sad. These comments aren’t meant to tear down Black folks it is just stating that although for MANY reasons (some rightfully so) they claim to be Pained, they are also distributors in return of many pains to others in the world…
Being Black does NOT give someone a FREE PASS from being Racist or Bigot, etc… I love President Obama and Our 1st Lady, but IF they don’t wake up to EQUALITY then as I have said in the past, they will lose my vote. Black, White, Yellow or GREEN, believe in Equality or lose my vote, funds, etc! PERIOD.
There was a debate on gay marriage in my college class. 4 out of 5 blacks were against it while almost all whites were for it or on a fence. Their reasons were “church, Bible, God.” I asked them what verses in the bible? Not one of 4 black students can give the answer. One out of 5 blacks was most outspoken in favor of gay marriage in the class. We need more of that black ally in the Black communities to help others to understand. We have Al Sharpton, the black preacher, who has outspoken in favor of the gay marriage. We need more blacks like him to stand up and outspeak with their own black communities. Otherwise the black communities might risk themselves after when a day all gays at last have equality, and then we look at them and say, “We do not forget what the majority of you did to us like we do not forget about 9-11.” Forget about Marion Barry, the only one councilman in WDC council voted against the gay marriage. He has became a real joke not only in our gay community but in the heterosexual community as well.
In grad school, I conducted a study comparing African Americans with white Americans on several measures, including their views on various political issues. While there were many racial differences, they disappeared when socio-economic status (SES) was considered. In other words, blacks and whites of equal SES did not differ substantially in their political views. They also didn’t differ on other measures, such as level of education and number of children. Researchers have consistently found the same result: large SES differences explain what initially appear to be race differences.
While some posters have assumed that religion is a second explanation, I found that religious differences also disappeared when SES came into play. For example, blacks and whites of equal SES went to church equally often. Again, this is a consistent finding. SES explains religious differences between blacks and whites, just as it explains other differences.
Our real enemy, I think, isn’t a race or demographic group. It’s homophobic demagogues like Maggie Gallagher and the National Organization for (Against) Marriage, James Dobson, and the like.
Fed Up has it wrong. Pointing out the general bigotry in the black community is not itself bigotry. Can we nolonger be honest? Is honesty politically incorrect? Grow a pair and speak truthfully.
First: Thank you James for a very important article!!
Second: It is SOOO refreshing to read such intelligent comments!!!
I have been spending so much time soaking up the ignorance {know your enemy!!!} on the Yahoo news & comments site (‘Buzz’) and trying to counter it, that I was getting VERY discouraged!!!
{See the recent news article and ‘Buzz-up’ on the treatment of Gay protesters in Moscow for an example if you don’t know what I mean.}
From now on I will be sure to balance my efforts on Buzz with more time here!!!!
There is a solution. The LGBT community should flaty refuse to vote, contribute or otherwise help any candidate of color until those communities support us as well. We should make it clear why…pure retaliation. We should make it clear very loudly. When they lose elections because of their bigotry, they will be more reasonable. Here is a harsh reality, power understands one thing better than anything else..power itself. Peoples of color used theirs, we should use ours.
I know this may sound racist but im black and the reason why i wont come out until im able to move out and go to college is because most black people and the black community are homophobic. Its a tough thing to say an im not trying to start any arguments but unless there’s a way to get the churches and the mentality of black community to accept homosexuality then I sadly see no hope in getting them to change there votes toward gay marriage.
@TigerTzu
[an expansion of my earlier comments brought up by your interesting analysis]
There’s a commonly held belief in rhetoric that you can’t argue an audience who is opposed to your position into accepting it [I would like to believe that it's not universally true, but it's a good rule of thumb.] That you argue moderates into acceptance and opponents into a more moderate stance.
No, we can not change religious doctrines from the outside. [And personally I don't think outsiders should.] And trying would probably only result in a more entrenched position.
However, most people don’t even realize that there is a diversity of religious opinions on these matters. That many serious religious individuals, religious leaders and religious communities, including Christians, are LGBT supportive. Educating the masses that others interpret scriptures and their religious duties differently will not provide some blinding flash of insight that suddenly changes the hearts and minds of fundamentalists.
It will however change the debate from being secular progressivism [read commie liberalism
] against people of faith, to one religious community (sided with social progressives) against another. It will, for instance, make everyone aware that denying marriage to some people for religious reasons denies others the opportunity to practice their religion as they choose. It promotes one religious viewpoint at the expense of another viewpoint, not THE [sole] religious one. It makes people aware that they can’t simply explain away civically oppressive actions by saying that they are religious; that they have to actually explain that they in fact belong to a conservative branch of their religion. And it makes sure that politicians know that courting the religious vote is more complicated that merely publicly espousing anti-LGBT doctrine.
Fighting religious people on their own turf is not a magic bullet, but by not even trying we cede all the votes of those vast numbers of people who equate morality with religion, religion with the conservatism they casually hear, and all of that with doing the right thing.
Let’s make sure that everyone knows that they have to own it when they take anti-LGBT stands and that they can’t use a superficial explanation of religion to explain it away.
I’m a black educated female & I am against gay marriage. I just feel it’s b/w a man & a woman. I don’t feel it’s a civil rights issue or that my beliefs are discrimminatory because I believe gays should have the same legal rights that I have but that it should be called “a civil union”. I am not a racist or a homophobe I accept people for who they are. This is a sensitive issue & because I have gay friends it’s something I’ve struggled with but I can’t help the way I feel.
When California rejected gay marriage I felt that many in the gay community were using the black community as a scapegoat. I just don’t want the same thing to happen here. Have you ever thought that maybe the black community is the only community willing to tell the truth on how they really feel on this issue. While others may just not be as forthcoming?
@ Melissa, I hear this argument all the time and it makes no sense. If you support the full marriage rights of gays and lesbians, why does it matter what it’s called? You can say your beliefs indicate marriage is a practice between opposite sexes, but what about *our* beliefs? What makes how *we* feel any less valued? There was a time when marriage indicated that a woman is her husband’s property, I think you can agree that things have changed a bit, so this has nothing to do with some notion of “tradition.” If it matters, I’m an educated Black man and I think the whole debate is a waste of time and resources from people on the against side who aren’t even affected by the issue.
Say what you want. We are talking about human beings who are a beneficial portion of this “… One nation, Under God, with Liberty and Justice for ALL. “All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others.” American, both black and white, Hypocrisy. Women’s rights, Black rights, Gun rights, Your rights , my rights it is all about HUMAN RIGHTS.
@Melissa
First, I agree with you about California in a certain way. Many LGBT people were quick to attack the black community after Prop 8 in ways that were often quite ugly.
Frankly, I just don’t think that a significant number of people are unwilling to tell the truth about how they really feel. There may come a time when people are afraid to say anti-gay things the way many are now afraid to say racist things, but, as we can see from public debates, I don’t think that time has come yet.
Next, it is a civil rights issue. It is about how we as a nation apply the idea of civil rights to ourselves. No matter where you fall on the issue, it is about civil rights. By definition. You may feel that “allowing” civil unions achieves equal civil rights for all, but the issue, the debate, is still about civil rights.
This is what I would ask you:
You would allow any man to marry any woman under any circumstances for any reasons no matter how ignoble, inglorious, self-serving or predictably unfortunate.
But you wouldn’t allow any same sex couple to have the status of marriage no matter how respectable their union is.
Even if all the couples have the same rights, can you see that this system says that no same sex couple is worthy of the same respect that even the worst of hetero couples can achieve, within hours in some locations.