Subscribe to Breaking NewsWithers: New Yorkers split by race on gay marriage
Let’s get the easy lifting out of the way: if you leave a comment about how I’m racist, look in the mirror please because the racist is you. If at any point in this rant you feel like I’m talking about all white gays and lesbians, then it’s time for glasses or a reading comprehension class. If you need to announce how I’m protecting my peeps, brothers and sisters, or whatever racial solidarity phrase you overheard in some club, suppress it. Please. Lastly no sharing what your black boyfriend, best friend, co-worker, neighbor and/or favorite singer told you about black American life (this also includes any theorizing about “the down-low”).
We reported yesterday about a Quinnipiac University poll that was promising for same-sex marriage advocates in New York. New York voters are evenly split on the topic of gay marriage. Unfortunately (look that word up) under closer inspection, the numbers show a troubling racial divide.
“Same-sex marriage? The state splits down the middle, with white voters in favor, black voters opposed and Hispanic voters just about even,” said Maurice Carroll, director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.”
According to the numbers, white New Yorkers narrowly approve gay marriage 47 to 45 percent. Black voters are opposed 57 to 35 percent; Hispanics also stood in opposition but their numbers were not as drastic at 48 to 45.
If we focus solely on the black community, there is no way to prettify the numbers. It would have been interesting to see how those stats broke down with religion attendance, but even if religion is taken into account the figures mirror what I’ve been arguing for awhile: secular gays and religious blacks have very little to say to each other. Based on many of the comments left here, I have doubts about the chasm being breached but that’s neither here nor there.
How to reverse the trend among New York’s blacks? Don’t know really. Some black folk are not going to budge on this issue; however, these are the four arguments I would repeat over and over and over again: 1) gay marriage has zippo to do with the individual decisions made by churches and denominations, 2) the whole debate about marriage for same sex couples is part of the freedom march that began when this country was founded, 3) same sex marriage makes life easier for black gay and lesbian couples, and 4) there are issues in the black community (unemployment and high-school graduation rates) that are more critical to black folk than who is getting a certificate from Empire State city halls.
What won’t work is trying to sell the “you blacks have been oppressed and you need to understand my struggle” line. Oppression does not equal enlightenment about others. It just means you are at the bottom looking up.
Rather than look at the negative (all those black people are against us gay folk…waa waa) perhaps we can look at the positive – 35% were in favor of gay marriage! What a great proof that there is hope for equality as we move forward. I’m encouraged to keep up the dicussions with all people who are not pro-gay marriage.
I agree that religious and educational factors play a significant role in determining the degree of tolerance one has for cultural differences. I also agree that economics plays a part as well. I believe that these factors have been identified many times before, yet I have seen almost no solutions offered other than vague platitudes about reaching out and opening a dialogue.
The most difficult of these reasons to overcome is religion. There may be some fence-straddlers who may be swayed by reason, but in many instances it boils down to trying to defeat with logic a position that has its foundation in mythology, superstition and “faith”. With most fundamentalists, open dialogue is an exercise in futility for one simple reason. They believe “god” has condemned us as an abomination and to change such a rigid viewpoint would require one to basically rewrite the tenents of those beliefs. In other words, you have to kill their faith (as they understand it) in order to make progress. Countering their arguements with old standbys such as quoting Jesus – Love one another and don’t judge others – wont work because if it did work, they wouldn’t be bigots in the first place. Even fundamentalist whackos can quote the Golden Rule.
When such prejudices are instilled from birth and followed by a lifetime of brainwashing, it will take more than a simple dialogue to breach that fortress. It would require months, maybe years of intense deprogramming to accomplish this and since this scenario is unlikely to occur, we will be facing a deeply entrenched position that will not be defeated by a war of words.
Education is another obstacle with no easy solutions. With our degree of national wealth, American education should be the example by which the rest of the world sets it’s standards, yet when compared to other industrialized nations, we fall near the bottom of the heap. Added to this is a counter-culture whose heroes are the gangstas and thugs (this isn’t merely a “black thing” as I have seen countless white kids with the same mentality) where street smarts and a gun are valued more than a diploma. Far from raising the bar to ensure our kids get a qulity education, the system itself seems geared towards the lowest common denominator and a dumbing-down of expectations. The only solution to this is to make sure our kids are held to a higher standard that we curently accept, and educated by teachers who are qualified to teach a curriculum that demands one to excell, rather than merely putting in an appearance in class.
On the economic front, things will only get worse as the divide between rich and poor grows even larger. Even with a college degree financial success is not guaranteed. Many with degrees are still wage slaves earning far less than they are worth compared to the profits they generate. Even the lucky ones who do succeed in earning an above average salary often face downsizing only to be replaced by younger, lower paid workers. This financial frustration is a perfect breeding ground for intolerance because when hard times hit, people start looking for a scapegoat upon which to blame their misfortunes.
There was a time when the breadwinner could work and support a family with 7 or 8 children, but these days it takes both parents working to raise one child. With little parental support, encouragement and a stable home life it is easy to see why our education system churns out illiterates who cannot function in a high-tech society. The inablity to function contributes to the poverty and the cycle continues, growing worse for each subsequent generation.
While it may not hurt to reach out and open dialogues, this will accomplish very little if we do not re-evaluate our selfish materialistic and imperialistic mindset and adopt new national priorities so that we experience actual change, rather than blowing smoke up each others asses.
Citing religious attendance, belief, or identification as responsible for the opposition of black voters to same-sex marriage is a justification of bigotry. Especially considering that religious attendance, belief, and identification does not preclude this group from having the highest incidence of out of wedlock births in the country.
@ wes
Unfortunate, but true
I don’t think blacks get some sort of pass for being poor. In fact, their struggle should mean that they are more sensitive to equality, not less.
I think one explanation for black hostility to gay marriage is black racism. Black people think that it is largely white people who want gay marriage, and they are letting their feelings against white people block their compassion and understanding. Very very sad.
Then we are at the mercy of the social and uneducated divide, the majority!
We had the same issue in California for Prop 8. Per exit polling, African Americans voted against gay marriage 90% to 10%. Whatever the reason for this, I wish that the black community would not be so quick to deny marriage rights to others so quickly after achieving equality for themselves.
But I don’t blame Black voters for the laws in place against gay Americans. They are 10% of the population in California, so they aren’t the only ones voting against equality.
Skin color has very little to do with the attitudes one derives from poor or no education, few or no opportunities, and being taught intolerance by the “church” one attends. I do, however, understand that (unfortunately) blacks do suffer a lot more from this than whites do.
I have relatives (shudder) that are as ignorant, backward, and uneducated as anyone could be (yes they are white). They march in lock-step with our oppressors, and are also a bunch of racist bastards. I could never understand the race issue that whites have against blacks (or anyone else for that matter). Hell, you go back far enough, EVERYONE is from Africa.
Meanwhile, my partner’s family is black and very much a part of the southern “church” going crowd. They are STILL much more tolerant of gays than my own blood relatives. They aren’t THRILLED by any means, but they are accepting and mostly vote for our side of issues.
Bottom line is, my partner’s family is better educated, not nearly as ignorant, and a HECK of a lot easier to get along with than my own blood relatives, even WITH the “church” they attend.
I would have to say I agree completely with Rocco. Social and educational divides are much better ways to attack the issues we face. No matter the color of one’s skin, it seems the better educated they are, the more tolerant they are (statistically speaking, of course)
“Oppression does not equal enlightenment about others.”
That’s the saddest thing I’ve read all week. ANYONE who pulls the ladder up on others, regardless of their history, race or class deserve to be called on their crap. I’m just saying.
To adopt the religious and social prejudices of the colonial power that once stripped you of your own humanity seems to me to be unutterably tragic and any reform must come from within the religious, racial or social group (outside interference is, as you make plain, unwelcome).
So lets here for the activists within the community who work for reform of the deeply seated prejudices that are being expressed from within and without.
I’m a social psychologist who researches prejudice and discrimination. I haven’t seen the data in this specific poll, but I can speak about bigger trends that tend to follow this same pattern. People like to focus on race with data like these, but generally speaking, Socioeconomic Status is what is really driving the differences, and when you adjust for that, there usually are no racial differences. In other words, Black people tend to be poorer in the U.S., and poorer people tend to be more religious and have more prejudice against gay people. People of any race show more support for gays and gay rights the more education and income they have.
Thanks for your article James. I just wanted to reflect a bit on your last sentence, “Oppression does not equal enlightenment about others.” I think this is why many of us are shocked about the general reaction from the black community; we are expecting their unfortunate experiences with oppression to help them realize that discrimination of any kind is wrong. I believe that intolerance, hatred, and discrimination are TAUGHT. For example, I grew up in rural Mississippi; I do recall being taught racist ideas. Though I am ashamed to say it, I feel like I would have grown up to be a racist had I not realized that the same hatred and intolerance directed to racial minorities was also used against people like ME! It was quite a shock to the system when I realized that I, too, was a minority. And I believe that this experience did, in fact, “enlighten” me. It helped me realize that we are all different, it there’s nothing wrong with that.
You are the one dividing gay marriage opponents into racial categories. Why? Why not divide them into social class and religious categories? Have you considered that people, regardless of race, are more likely to oppose gay marriage if they belong to a conservative church, are religious, or are working-class in an environment with few out gays? If you eliminate all the social variables I doubt you’ll find anything significant about race.
Ok, I’ll start out by admitting I am white, and my observations are for a total wide statistical view.
You point out what seems to me to be the two big reasons for black America’s views on same sex marriage. Religion and education. All the numbers I have seen is that if you just take the very religious from black America and compare it to just the very religious from white America same sex marriage approval ratings are very nearly identical. Strong religious belief is just more widespread in black culture. We need to reach out to religious people, because they aren’t going away, and we live in a representative democracy, so we can’t just ignore that much of the population. The techniques that have worked for getting through to the middle ground religious aspects of all America will continue to work. Don’t be too hard core in inappropriate settings (the white party exists for a reason. Just because we need to let loose sometimes doesn’t mean we need to let loose all the time). Come out to our families. Love does tend to win out, even if it takes a while. I’ve seen this one turn more frozen hearts than I can really describe. It’s a basic human thing, color can step aside on the ties of family. So on and so forth.
In terms of education, less educated people statistically are less approving of same sex marriage. So I say we seriously look at providing a helping hand. Maybe we should do some combined fund raising, maybe we should try to find some education reform that would help us as well as help the black community and collaborate with the organization that are trying to improve the education situation for African Americans. It helps us indirectly, and it helps get rid of a little bit of that stupid stereotype that gays and lesbians only care about ourselves politically. You know you’ve run into that one, and you know for at least a moment or two you’ve thought maybe it’s true.
I don’t think these are the only solutions, and maybe they aren’t even the best solutions. We need to take a positive stance and learn to embrace people that don’t get us enough to support us yet. Forget race divisions a little bit. Look at the community as being unique in it’s own way culturally and understand that the makeup of the community will have reasonable effects on it’s members as human beings. Approach things from that angle and try to understand those that don’t understand us. Someone’s got to do it first, or we will never come together. And again, for those who say they don’t want to come together, I say to live on an island where you can be dictator. Like it or not the popular election thing isn’t going anywhere.
Nice article (humorous as well).
I was curious whites were described as supportive at 47 to 45, while hispanics were described as split at 48 to 45?
While demographics are often broken down by race, in this case any racial differences require an additional explanation. I do suspect that in this case religion is a significant player.
Conceding the religious ground is a losing strategy. Yes, this is SUPPOSED to be a secular country, but by not addressing religious arguments that entire ground is conceded to our opponets. And the religious make up a large portion of our country.
While that does not mean that we must bow to the beliefs of others, the conversation needs to be conducted by LGBT advocates who can effectively carry the conversation in a way that those various religious communities can hear and understand.
Well stated. Thanks for the sober analysis. As a former Detroiter, I know what you’re talking about. The racial disparities are going to be hard to overcome, but finger pointing has done nothing to advance ANY cause in my hometown.