Subscribe to Breaking NewsWithers: How not to begin a conversation about black homophobia
Contrary to some 365 chatter, I think homophobia among black folks needs to be discussed, and critiqued, for what it is: bigotry. It is true if you come screeching nonsense then I’m moving on. Unfortunately most of the time when the topics race, sexuality, and prejudice are in the mix, a mess is sure to follow.
Writer Gabriel Arana wants to talk about black homophobia but he trips over the topic before he even gets out of the gate. I’ll do my best to be polite, but his essay is filled with the type of misconceptions that kill any type of meaningful discussion. I’m not sure where to begin because his words are all over the place and some of his sources are dubious at best. Call me a snob but I trust this source on the “dreaded” down low, rather than the one Arana uses.
Aside from the nitpicking, his whole premise is slightly dubious because there have been conversations about black homophobia. Go here, here, here, here, and here. All those come up with a quick Google search.
However, with all that said, his last paragraph broke the deal for me.
“Finally, I think part of the hesitation in acknowledging homophobia in the black community is about privilege: Who gets to talk about problems in the African-American community? For members outside of the African-American community (read: White people) to critique its social norms is to invoke White privilege and call to mind the historical power relationship between blacks and whites. I think it would be best for LGBT folk who are African-American to lead the discussion, no less so because they speak from a position of greater understanding.”
So if I read Arana correctly, there needs to be some talking about black homophobia and it should be led by black gays and lesbians because of our “position of greater understanding”; however, if those same black gays and lesbians note the role faith plays in black homophobia then we are not being honest about the topic?
And why does he assume group membership implies an understanding of group dynamics. That’s some multi-cult noise we learned in school (and I’m a proud diversity baby), but it really doesn’t make any sense because it assumes black gays and lesbians speak with a singular voice. Keith Boykin equals Jasmyne Cannick equals James Withers. Or to flip the script, Dan Savage equals Andrew Sullivan equals Jennifer Vanasco. And isn’t prejudice so pernicious that what only counts is that it is called out, no matter who is doing the calling?
I’ll give Arana credit for taking on an important topic, but he’s going to end up talking to himself if this is the type of stuff he’s going to throw out.
Bob,
“Waiting for Black GLBT leaders to call their own community out for its homophobia would be akin to waiting for the Klan to admit they are a group of hater mongers and need to change their ways. With help from Americans of all racial, ethnic and socio-economic backgrounds.”
Are you really trying to argue that black LGBT leaders do not speak against homophobia in the black community? Really?
Sincerely,
James
Bob,
Yours is one of the best comments I’ve seen here in quite a long time. It saddens me when you say that you probably will not live to see, Marriage Equality in all 50 states and the territories. But truth is if our leaders don’t start to grow a spine and are as vociferous and as unapologetic when they defend their own as other groups are, none of us here will live to see that dream of LGBT equality come true.
As for Whithers, just remember that he doesn’t think there’s such a thing as the LGBT community. He has said so in he’s previous posts. That should be an indication of where he’s coming from.
Diverting from the issue in front of us wont help. We could get distracted from the down low issue or we can really confront what it is: Homophobia, plain and simple. You can help someone come out of the closet all you want but I agree with this post, straight African American folks are the one with who we should be talking to. Mainstream media has made it that tolerant open minded people are only white. We need to change that.
Seems most have forgotten the Mormon’s part in Prop 8’s passing.
Oh, that’s right. They’re White.
Black homophobia is not inconsequential. Here in Cleveland we finally have a domestic partnership bill passed recently; crumbs after the State outlawed gay marriage in 2004. And now it is the black clergy of the inner city black churchs that are leading the drive to repeal it. I find it really disgusting that a community that cried so long about discrimination and being shortchanged would turn around and do the same to an even more vulnerable, oppressed minority group. What the hell is that about? What is it with this community? I used to think it was just alot of insecure staight black men but so many of the women are like that too. What kills me is that I went to the same college as Corretta Scott King, and she has been outspoken in support of gay rights, inline with her husband’s greater vision. The difference between Mormon’s voting for Prop 8 and blacks voting for Prop 8 is that the latter community has a greater responsibility to support other minority groups because they have experienced oppression and hav experienced a degree of support from other. They have a duty to support us. I’m not aware of the Mormons having the same experience of oppression, though they may disagree.
Have we forgotten that a whole lot of the $$$ behind the Prop 8 campaign came from the Mormon Church?
I suppose so.
I guess that’s because they’re White.
Sorry to burst the bubble of some folks, but the discussion about homophobia in the Black community has been happening. One example is statements by Rev. Al Sharpton: http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=01&year=2009&base_name=and_sometimes_there_are_moment
But all kinds of conversations need to take place, including racism in the gay community. And as long as civil rights keep getting put on the ballot for majority vote, it makes no sense to just sound off at Black folks. You better start engaging and educating. Yes, some folks get it and identify the universality of the term “civil rights”. Others don’t want to hear the comparison of “your sin to my skin”. Get to work on engaging Black folks, especially through church. There are some progressive ones out there that can be starting points. It’s a conversation I’m having with straight family and friends more often.
Why is it even necessary to separate homophobes by skin color? I’ll just judge them on the content of their character. In this case sadly lacking.
The people who voted for prop 8 in my opinion are not homophobes. They were exercising their rights as citizens of this nation.
I reserve the name homophobe for the people and institutions that chose to lie about us and the impact of gay marriage in California.
Why do you feel the need to seperate black homophobes from white homophobia, or the homophobes in any other race? Is “black homophobia” worse or more detrimental to you, us or anyone else than white homophobia? Considering that the national face of homophobia (ie, those who are funding and passing laws against gay people, those staging protests against gay people, and those voting discrimination into law) is white people, why seperate and continue to talk on and on about homophobia in the black community. Homophobia needs to be dealt with regardless of who is spewing it, but your, and other white gay people’s obsession with homophobia among black people is beyond pointless.
It’s funny that someone would say that the black ministers in OH are the mouthpieces for all Black people, yet those like the NAACP in CA, who have filed briefs for the repeal of Prop 8, Al Sharpton, who has spoken out against homophobia, Julian Bond, who has also come out in support of gay people, the majority of the Congressional Black Caucus, who support pro gay causes across the line, the current Govenors of MA and NY, and countless other black public and private people who have come out in support of gay people don’t speak for all black people. I can’t help but wonder who gave this person and Mr. Withers the right to say that all black people think alike.
Mr. Whithers – What is the difference between your comments about white people and Hal Turner’s comments about black people or jews?
Guess who’s the guest minister at MLK’s home church this Monday ?
From: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iKPtiVqeDBjjcejpbJ523fRjGHqQD95OGQCG0
“Obama, part of his King Day will be spent volunteering as part of a national call for service. The back-to-back King holiday and inauguration are expected to draw millions.
Still, Atlanta will be in the spotlight with the traditional pomp and circumstance at King’s spiritual home, Ebenezer Baptist Church, including the ceremonial wreath laying at the tomb and the ecumenical service. But this year’s keynote speaker is Pastor Rick Warren, a Southern Baptist who opposes gay marriage.
That speech is just a warm-up, with Warren whisking away to Washington to give the invocation at Tuesday’s inauguration, which is expected to draw more than 3 million people.”
*sheesh*
Eddie,
I don’t know. Why don’t you tell me.
And this is a minor point, but the last name is spelled Withers. Like the singer Bill.
Sincerely,
James
68% of new AIDS cases in women are African American women. I guess all us white gay guys have caused that Mr. Withers. The Gay Community, that you don’t believe exists, still does so much more for people with AIDS then any other group around. That does now and will continue to impact the AA community and in a very good way. Us horrible white racist fags are just awful, aren’t we. And black men and women are contracting AIDS at a very huge rate. Not from being over- religious either.
You and your followers here use the word “white” quite a bit. Usually with a pointing finger behind it.
Having read the article here about Ebenezer Baptist inviting Rick Warren to lead the MLK celebration I guess was just a “religious move” and had nothing to do with the homophobic hooplah surrounding his Innauguration guest spot. I think it was a public “faggot lynching” by Ebenezer organizers and their elders.
Your faith argument is silly given that the African American Church was the faith adopted by AA’s from their former owners. They didn’t have a great faith awakening. They were forced by their owners to worship their God and the current AA church is just a hand me down faith from slave owners. They didn’t return to their African faith. They were forced to believe and continue to do so.
The term “slave” comes from my white slavik ancestors who were for 500 years forced into labor by Germanic tribes in Europe.
The term “down low” is just what white closet cases refer to being “bi-curious” because both groups are too chicken sh*t to be who they are and care way too much about what bigots think about them and will therefore never take up for the cause but will continue to reap the benefits.
There is a total lack of interest from the “AA community” to hear from white gay men and women about homophobia in their ranks. I have tried and my words fell on deaf ears. They do not wish to hear from me so I will continue taking my message to places where all opinions matter.
I am no more willing to spend time with white homophobes and I won’t waste my time trying to educate them either.
I had meetings with Desmond Tutu in my predominately white church. My father invited him to speak out against Apartheid and look at the difference he made. I guess that must be why Ebenezer invited Rick Warren to speak.
Doctor and Mrs. King were totally pro-gay and made it very publicly clear that they were and yet the very church that MLK Ministered from is now hosting a recently and very public person (white)to reinforce their hating views.
I am just trying to figure out what a “white gay interest” is? Is the implication that first we fight for white gay rights and then provide separate but equal gay rights for blacks? Gay rights are gay rights.
Your purpose here is controversy. You get comments so you get to continue playing. It’s not because there is huge agreement about what you are saying. You are basically the black, gay, Anne Coulter. Everybody wants to be the one to shut you up.
There are nearly as many people that are gay as there are African Americans. Many guys think that because they are black and somebody wouldn’t date them that it was solely because they were black. Perhaps they were just as*holes and they were spurned for that. It doesn’t make the guys that turned you down racist. It just means they didn’t like you.
I am very tired of your finger pointing everywhere when many of your problems stem from who you are as a person and not the color of your skin. But if it makes you feel better to use your race by all means go ahead. I just don’t buy it. I have way too many “men of color” in my life to think it is as pervasive as you and some of your biased readers tend to think.
Coming to you from Rosa L.Parks Boulevard in the deep south I bid you peace. Get over it James. It’s about you and not the color of your skin.
Myke,
Do you have a point or do you just want to “show” how I’m the black, gay Anne Coulter? A very funny line by the way. Not at all connected to reality but points for effort.
As for the other stuff, I really don’t know what to say. You go from AIDS in the black community, to Rev. Warren, touch on Rev, Tutu, and end with greetings from the deep South. So I’ll just ask: do you have a question?
Sincerely,
James