Subscribe to Breaking NewsWithers: The Prop 8 vote was always complicated
Better Jennifer than me. Writing about the Proposition 8 vote and race is tiring because some people have weak reading comprehension skills. Ever since marriage rights were taken away in California, I’ve “learned” the following about myself: 1) I hate whites, 2) I think all white gays are racist, and 3) I’m an excuse maker when it comes to homophobia in the black community.
None of those truthiness ditties are true, but they have been thrown out here in the 365 neighborhood because I’ve questioned CNN’s exit poll that 70 percent of black California residents voted yes on Prop 8. Others have also pointed to the poll’s flaws, from numbers guru Nate Silver at 538.com to political analyst David Binder (who did polling for President-elect Barack Obama’s campaign). Ahh, but to point to these perspectives is just excuse making. My “brothers and sisters” (who knew Ma was so busy!) screwed gays over. I’m a racist whose character is questionable. Meh.
Yesterday’s released study by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Policy Institute, written by Patrick J. Egan and Kenneth Sherrill, points out that a yes vote on Proposition 8 was mostly pushed by age, faith, and political perspective. The study mirrored Binder’s unofficial numbers that black support for Prop 8 was between 57-59 percent. This high support however makes sense when religion is factored in.
“…Controlling for frequency of religious attendance helps explain why African Americans supported Proposition 8 at higher levels than the population as a whole. Among Californians who attend worship at least weekly, support for Proposition 8 was nearly uniform across all racial and ethnic groups.”
This new study gives no one a pass. This new study gives no one a pass. Let the choir hear this for the last time from me: this new study gives no one a pass. Homophobia, no matter who espouses it, needs to be exposed for what it is: prejudice. However, we really can’t fight our enemies if we don’t know who they are or how to counteract their rhetoric. And yes Virginia there are going to be people with black faces who are anti-same sex marriage. Get over it and stop being shocked (shocked!) that some blacks sound like those whites back in the day wringing their hands over interracial marriage.
James you haven’t answered the main point – you can try to change the subject all you’d like.
You attempt to portray the gay community as being as racist as the black community is homophobic, and so you slander millions of innocent gay people.
Please answer my challenge – name ONE gay organization that discriminates based on race. Just ONE James – ONE.
I can name many black organizations that discriminate against gay people.
Homophobia is INSTITUTIONALIZED in the black community. It is not only ACCEPTABLE – it is INSTITUTIONAL.
Here is another challenge for you – name ONE – just ONE – gay recording artist that has lyrics suggesting black people be killed. JUST ONE JAMES.
I can name 50 black recording artists with homophobic lyrics.
BLACK HOMOPHOBIA IS NOT ONLY ACCEPTED IT IS INSTITUTIONAL AND CULTURAL.
When you try to equate what gay racism might exist to black homophobia all you do is slander white gay people.
Jason,
“I wish 365gay.com would find a more intelligent mouthpiece for the black community….”
Can we get something clear for a moment? I’m a mouthpiece for me. Only me. I do not pretend to sepak for “a community.” That would be hubris.
Sincerely,
James
Jason….I love you!
Eddie…I think it’s time you get your own column started. Withers’ arguments are old, tired and self-serving. I only come here to this site to read the commentators.
“The study [indicated] black support for Prop 8 was between 57-59 percent. This high support however makes sense when religion is factored in.”
= Apologist. If you can’t recognize the apologism in that statement, you obviously have a honeyed view of your own logical and analytical abilities.
Your impotently egotistical insult about commenters’ reading comprehension shows your only method to deflect criticism is argumentum ad hominem.
I wish 365gay.com would find a more intelligent mouthpiece for the black community, preferably one with significant experience in social justice causes that do more than vomit rhetoric on the internet.
how can i vote on prop 8 i want to cast my vote
Eddie,
So if I understand you correctly, not renting to someone who is black is retaliation for the Prop 8 vote. Mmmmm. The law might not be on your side there!
I’ll let the next sentences be my final word on the topic. Thanks for the conversation.
“This new study gives no one a pass. This new study gives no one a pass. Let the choir hear this for the last time from me: this new study gives no one a pass. Homophobia, no matter who espouses it, needs to be exposed for what it is: prejudice.”
I disagree with James on this. You can turn the analysis around very easily:
-more blacks are religious than whites
-religion is homophobic
-therefore, blacks are more homophobic
James prefers to say that religious people are more homophobic and blacks are more religious, its not their issue, it is religions.
Well, if I was black and religious and people were preaching to me to hate others, I’d walk out of that church. Just like when in 4th grade I decided to refuse to stand during the pledge and take part. We have the power to make decisions for ourselves and those blacks just like those whites that go to church and hate us are BAD PEOPLE REGARDLESS OF SKIN COLOR. They have given over their brains and reason to hate mongers.
I don’t buy the excuse that since more are religious, more voted against us but it isn’t black homophobia.
Who knows? Maybe those whites and blacks that go to church go because of their homophobia (and likely other phobias).
My position above is not racist. it is anti religion and anti homophobia. Just happens that more blacks than whites seem to feel that way…now the correct response to that realization is what are we going to do to help them get over their religious delusion?
James your mistake is in mentioning the two things at once – that’s the definition of equivication.
On the comments you posted – I don’t see them as racist. I see them as retaliatory. As long as we’re being called racists and having our rights taken away from us – perhaps we should retaliate? Just a question. Or perhaps we can just roll over and take it – again.
At any rate James – you portray the idea that racism is as rampant and institutional in the gay community as homophobia is in the black community, and that’s not exactly honest.
Name ONE gay institution that discriminates based on race? I can name 5 dozen black organizations that are homophobic.
Clearly – your aim was to paint the gay community as being as racist as the black community is homophobic – and that is simply a slander to the gay community, and you keep perpetuating that slander every time you write about Prop 8.
I know you’re not happy that the black community voted the way that it did – stop excusing it and stop equivicating about it and call out the black community for what it has done – just as we call out the Mormons or Rick Warren.
I suggested it before – use your position as a published black author and get a dialog started with the leaders of the First AME and the gay community here in Los Angeles – but that would take effort.
It’s far easier to sit behind your keyboard and scream racism.
“I’ve traveled the world and haven’t seen racism in the gay community. Sorry – I don’t see it here in LA either.” – Wow, that it some bubble that you live in. I guess that privilege of yours makes that world possible. On the flip side I guess that when straight people say that homophobia doesn’t exist in the white or racial communities it makes them sound just as credible since they wouldn’t be privy to it, or when gay people say that bi phobia doesn’t exist.
I live in Los Angeles, and I am a high school student. I belong to the Gay/Straight Alliance at my school. There are people of all races in our club. We don’t get homophobic remarks or threats from the white kids or the asian kids. We get them all the time from the black kids and the latino kids. What’s funny is the black kids and the latino kids hate each other. There have been so many fights based on race at my school. All of them have been between the black and latino students. There have been fights like this at other schools too. What cracks me up is both groups call white people racists.
Eddie,
“Racism in the gay community requires the same vigorous conversation.”
Really? Honestly? You think that sentence says all white gays are racist? The post was written as a response to SOME people who were leaving racist posts here and elsewhere, angry about the Prop 8 vote. Here is an example of something a commentator said here two days after the Prop 8 vote:
“If you own their apts – evict them. If they work for you – fire them. Vote for longer prison sentences and anti-immigration policies.”
I guess from where you stand that line isn’t racist at all?
For the last time: all of my comments are directed toward those who engage in bigotry. No sweeping comments (ie- “if you own their apts – evict them. If they work for you – fire them..”) from me.
Sincerely,
James
SSM
Take the plunge keep the banner flying
Candlelight vigil continue figthing
Our civil liberties gaining freedom
Declare to my partner bond of union
Waiting for justice a dream of ours
Unrest, social change shattered and charged
Love, devotion and responsibility
Peacefully protest the end of history
Evidence suggests Lincoln was gay, or at the very least bisexual.
He freed the slaves, and laid the ground work for the african american community to get the right to vote in this country.
It’s awesome that they used the sacred power a member of the LGBT community gave them, to screw that same community over.
“People of color, there are tons of info on Gay Racism out there.”
When have Gay people voted to take away the rights of people of color? When has an out Gay or Lesbian been in front of a camera unequivocally advocating for discrimination to African Americans? There are many examples on record of African Americans doing that to Gay people. Some of you seem to have such a high threshold for homophobia when it comes from people of color.
Stop with the excuses and stand up against bigotry, All bigotry not just some.
I agree with everything Eddie and Little Red wrote.
James Whithers is a defender of heterosexual oppression. I will never get over it. For too long gay people have let things slide. It’s past time for accountability.